June 2008

Jessie has multiple identities: she is the host of the popular CR2 radio show, Psyche Park 西崎公園 . She is also You See Hand 游思行 the lyricist. She has written lyrics for Cantopop stars, including Vincy Chan 泳兒 , Garlum 嘉琳 , Candy Lo 盧巧音 , Fiona Sit 薛凱琪 , Pong Nan 藍奕邦 , Jade Kwan 關心妍 , and Hins Cheung 張敬軒 . These include the lyrics to the award-winning song, My Sense In You 感應 sung by Vincy Chan 泳兒 . We interviewed Jessie at Kubrick, Yaumatei, where she talked to us about her career as lyricist and also her creative process in lyric writing.

What songs did you listen to when you were growing up?

When I was small, my brother listened to George Lam 林子祥 , Michael Kwan 關正傑 , Priscilla Chan 陳慧嫻 , and many more . Jacky Cheung 張學友 had just started his career. At that time, I just listened to what everyone else was listening to. When I was a teenager, I listened to the radio. By then, there was a Chinese songs campaign on Commercial Radio 2, so I had more chance to listen to Cantonese and Mandarin songs than to English songs. When I liked a song, I especially paid attention to the lyrics.

Are you influenced by any particular lyricists?

When I was young, I just took the lyrics for granted. I also took variety in lyrics for granted, I just thought that was a given. I particularly like Richard Lam Chung Keung 林振強 . He was an all-rounder. He wrote silly songs, warm songs, sensual and sexy songs, and songs about family. I really appreciate and admire his works. To be honest, I only came to appreciate his work in recent years. Another lyricist that I really like is Chow Yiu Fai 周耀輝 . I like the ways he uses metaphor and tends to bring out the main theme not too explicitly

How did you get into the business of lyric writing?

This is an interesting question because it is actually very difficult to become a lyricist in Hong Kong. It is difficult because there is no established way to do it and because it depends quite heavily on social networking. To put it simply, you have to know people who are active in the music industry. Lyric writing is not the same as song composition. If I were a composer, I could write a lot of songs as demos for the producers to choose from. It is not the same for lyric writing. A producer has to trust you to assign you a song.

I started by joining a small music publisher. Joining a publishing firm meant that they would assign some jobs to me. I was in their pool of talent and the publisher also took a percentage of the income. At the beginning, the jobs I got were not really mainstream Cantopop songs. I wrote lyrics for mainland TV drama theme songs. When I was lucky, I had opportunities to write lyrics for Cantopop stars. There were some interesting jobs, like writing children’s songs for TVB. It might not have sounded much but I was able to compile a portfolio. Then of course I also had to wait for a chance to meet different producers. Right now, I am affiliated with EMI, so I have more chances to write lyrics for mainstream pop artists. This is my story of how I got into the circle of lyric writing.

Can you explain the process of lyric writing as a commercial process?

Usually, the process starts with a melody on a demo. After a melody is chosen, the lyric comes second and finally the arrangement. Then the producer will find his own people to do the arrangement. Sometime the producer already has a particular lyricist in mind and he will contact that lyricist directly. Or the producer may just contact a publisher, like my firm. Then the producer will be introduced to a lyricist by the publishing firm. If the producer thinks the lyricist is the right person, then there will be more communication and work will be done. Basically I can write up a song in a day.

What does it mean when you receive a ‘song’? Is it just a simple melody or with full arrangement?

Usually I will receive a demo. There is usually already a melody on the demo, with some simple arrangement. It is usually not fully arranged. The melody may be played with computer instruments or just a vocal singing ‘la la la la’. Some have demo lyrics. It is actually quite difficult for the composers to sell their songs, so they put in a lot of effort as well. The lesser-known composers have to put in extra effort. Sometimes they may do it like it is ready to be played on the radio, usually at their expense.

Do producers usually give you some ideas or let you have free expression?

It depends, but I have come across both.

How do you write the lyric for a song?

With some songs, I was already given the theme. With others, I had to listen to the song several times and get the mood or get a picture of the song before writing. Of course, I have to consider the sound of Cantonese and the melody as well. When writing in Cantonese, I have to make sure that the music notes and the Cantonese fit perfectly. This is one characteristic of Cantonese lyric writing. If there is a wonderful match between the notes and the lyric, the song will sound much better. When I have a theme, I scan the melody to look for the best place to put the focal words. Which parts of the melody best fit the thematic words? Is it at the beginning or in the first line of the chorus? Once I found the best place for the focal words, I can gradually develop the rest of the lyric.

Do you rely on a rhyming dictionary for this?

There is a rhyming dictionary for Cantonese called 粵 音韻彙 . It is available in large bookstores. It is a dictionary and you can find words according to a rhyme. It is an interesting tool book. Once you decide on a rhyme, you can open the dictionary to a particular page and you will be able to find all the words that fit the rhyme. Sometimes I may use this and sometimes I just use my memory.

Let’s take your award winning song My Sense In You 感應 as an example. Where did you start?

For that song, I thought of a hook line first. The hook line is usually the first line of the chorus. The first line is ‘I kiss you and we breathe together’ 我吻著你同我同步呼吸這一口氣 . It was the spirit of the song. Then I figured out the whole story. It is not about starting from the beginning or at the end. There is no rule. But it usually starts with the chorus, because chorus is the focus. It is also a word-melody interactive process.

You mentioned that for the song My Sense In Yo, there were several drafts.

Sometimes the producer has his opinion on the lyrics. For example, some producers are very experienced, so they know immediately that some lines could sound better. Some producers are satisfied with the first draft. There may also be controversial points that some lines might not fit the image of the singers.

Are there situations that you have to work in a rush?

Sometime the producer may ask me to finish the job within a 1 or 2 days. There may be some production reasons for the rush.

With Cantonese songs, do melodies or lyrics come first?

With Cantonese, melodies should come first except some rare cases. If you have the lyrics first, the melody could not flow smoothly in musical sense. If the lyrics comes first, it will be a lot more difficult to write a good melody.

Does it make a difference whether you are writing the lyrics for an original composition or a cover version?

There is no big difference but it is always easier to write lyrics for a good melody! When I am writing for a cover song, the demo I received is a finished product. The good point is that I will already have a very full mental picture. The music arrangement is already complete, so I can get a full feeling and image of the music. The downside is that the producer may want to have a different musical presentation and I may not know that.

When you are writing for cover version, will the language of the original song affect your work?

With fast songs, sometime I am creative with meaning. For English and Mandarin, there is a stronger focus on the stress of words, not the pitch. In other words, it doesn’t matter whether you put a do or fa in that place. Therefore sometimes the melody could be ambiguous. When I am writing for a cover version, I have to be careful about this. It is possible that a word is flown out freely with an unstressed note. When I am writing in Cantonese, there must be a character for every note.

Is there a difference between writing slow and fast songs?

There is no fixed rule on professional lyric writing, you learn on the job. For fast songs, you may be wittier (slow songs also can). With slow songs, inner emotions are more important. With fast songs, you have to make sure that the audience can pick out the words or they may miss it in just a second. This is really something I have to learn from writing lyrics and on-the-job training.

When do you decide to use English as your hook line?

Nowadays, it is not that common to use English in hook line. In the past, English hook lines were usually used in cover songs. Right now, I only use English hook lines when it seems right.

Which language is more difficult when it comes to lyric writing: Mandarin or Cantonese?

For me, it is Mandarin. Technically, it is easier to write in Mandarin because there is less restriction. But Mandarin is not my mother tongue, so I don’t think I can do a really good job. I don’t live in this language, so my sense for it is not as good. I feel there is a higher demand on rhyme and rhythm. I still have to learn about this.

Do you also write English lyrics?

Basically, it really depends on the job I am given. I do want to try different things, like writing English lyrics for bands, but this is not really in demand. Of course, it is also an issue about language. English is not my first language, so I will inevitably make silly mistakes. I am a Hongkonger, I write Hong Kong English. Does it matter that I write Hong Kong English? It depends on the song and its function. If I am writing for other singers, I have to match their requirements. If I am only writing to amuse myself, I can do whatever I want. But the truth is no Hong Kong singer is singing English songs, so the job for writing English song does not really exist. Local Hong Kong singers either cover foreign pop songs or in the case of some singer song-writers, they sing their own English songs.

Some people said that there is nothing Cantonese about Cantopop, except the language. What do you think of this view point?

I think it is possible to break through this mould. If you talk to people from the industry, you will learn that they all listen to a lot of different foreign music. Some were overseas-educated. Even if they want to do something different, there are limitations. It is possible to say that the system of the music industry made it difficult for Cantopop to really develop healthily. The big records labels only look at alternative project ideas with suspicion. Some small labels are willing to back alternative projects, but then some do not survive long enough to support more projects. To give a simple example, right now, the industry is practically dominated by only a couple of lyricists, that in itself is already not a healthy phenomenon. The public has no choice. I am not saying these lyricists are not good or anything, it is just that what they express can only represent certain points of view. The lyric writing scene was quite different in the early 1990s. There were more female lyricists, like Erica Li Man 李敏 , Siu Mei 小美 , Cheung Mei Yin 張美賢 , and Canny Leung Chi San 梁芷珊 , they were all very prolific lyricists. I believe that as woman, I can write more fitting lyrics for female artists. I feel that it is my responsibility. To be honest, how well do men know women or vice versa? I see men and women as having two different mindsets, so I believe that I can write better lyrics for female artists simply because I am a woman. I think writing lyrics is not just about putting beautifully crafted words into a song, it is about resonance. This is the missing link nowadays. When I read the lyrics from the 1980s and 1990s, the lyrics were quite simple, but you can feel the resonance. Nowadays, people tend to put more words into the lyrics. When I listen to songs, sometimes I can only hear very long sentences, but I really can't digest the lyrics while listening to the songs.

This is quite technical. Can you explain a bit more?

You can see the evolution of melody. Older Cantopop songs had simpler melodic structures, it means there were fewer notes in a phrase. Right now, there are more notes in one phrase. I think the karaoke singing culture contributed partly to this evolution. When there are more notes, you need more words. With more words, less singing technique is needed.

Isn’t it easier if there are fewer words?

Not really. Let say there are two phrases with the same length of time, with fewer notes, that means you have to sing and hold each note for a little bit longer, and this can be very tricky. With more notes, you don’t need to hold each note for so long. That’s why when I receive a melody with a more complex structure, I tend to treat the lyric as natural speaking or conversation. Otherwise people may find it more difficult to digest the lyric. Too many meanings in a phrase may reduce the resonance of a song.

If more complex or abstract ideas are more difficult top understand, do you tend to write in a more direct way?

I tend to write in simpler words. After all, I do have to consider my target audience. I am not just writing for myself. If I were not in this mass media industry, I might want to go deeper and study classical literature. But I am working in the mass media. I have to write something for the mass to get the most resonance.

As a music industry insider, how do you see the development of lyric writing in Cantopop?

It’s a small circle. You can not say that there are a lot of opportunities. It seems there are currently more job offers than a couple of years ago. The music industry is not doing so well, but it’s getting a bit better. But I feel that Cantopop lyrics have turned more pessimistic. I mean when I go to work in the radio station (I work in the morning), I look at the list of hit Cantopop songs and sometimes I feel that I am only looking at unhappy or undeniably negative-thinking songs. Sometimes I feel tired of that as well. I don’t know whether this is the result of the orientations of different lyricists or market demand. Personally I don’t believe that the mass market really only wants sad songs. Maybe the dominance of karaoke culture is also factor. It is easier to please the audience with sad songs. You will probably get married once, so you just need one song for that occasion. Before you get there, you probably broke up with ten other people, so you may need ten sad songs. But I do think it is time to expand our horizons in Cantopop. To be honest, I don’t think lyricists should exist in the industry at all.

Why is that?

I think lyric writing is a very personal process, the singers should write their own lyrics. I do appreciate singer-songwriters. From a personal perspective, I can only say that my role is a bit more passive. I really have to wait for jobs. It also depends on whether the songs I write will become popular hits or not. I feel that I am only a small part of the whole creative process. Yet I can feel that the whole music industry is changing in a certain way. When there are more singer song-writers, the whole music scene will be different. From the freedom of expression point of view, I feel that the voices of female lyricists have not fully reached their potential.

Can we talk a bit more about your partnership with Candy Lo 盧巧音 on her latest album Process ? We really like that your team covers different aspects of life, not just romantic life.

We think that’s how music should be. When you get to a certain age, you start thinking more about life and where you stand in life. I think this is what Candy wants to talk about as well. This is only natural to everyone: to reflect upon one’s life. To cover such an ambitious topic, you do require a project. You need the freedom to do something different. In the creative process, Candy and her producer, Kubert Leung 梁翹柏 already have different contexts in mind. We already had a consensus on let’s say 5 songs and these 5 songs cover the different stages in life. For each song, we brainstormed the content. Of course the fact that Candy invested her money in that album also secured her creative freedom.

Does your religious belief affect your lyric writing?

The basics of my religious belief are faith, hope and love. These qualities are universal. I based my lyric writing on these premises to bring positive energy to my audience. I am not forcing people to accept my beliefs. I just hope people will get the positive message. Of course from time to time, I feel that there are clashes between my job and my beliefs. I received a job order to write the lyrics for Freeze, a girl band with three very sexy young women. I found the context interesting. Yes, it’s true that the band may wear skimpy clothes and strike sexy poses when they perform, but they are still women. I present sexuality and sensuality in a discussable way in the lyrics. Yes, I may use physical seduction, but in the end, I want your true love. True love is the focal point, my platform.

Do you feel that you have social responsibility as a lyricist?

Absolutely, sometimes I feel the responsibility is so heavy that I can’t sleep. I don’t mean that there must be a very positive message in every one of my songs. The feelings must be true. I just don’t want to send negative thinking or a distorted message. In recent years, I found that there are so many lyrics with less-than-positive messages. When I fell out of love, it hurt. He is a bad ex-boyfriend. It is not a good feeling, yes, songs about falling out of love are necessary to give people a way to express their unhappiness truthfully. But there should also be other songs to give more positive views of love.

Do you want to work with any particular singers?

When I was younger, I thought about that. I really wanted to write songs for Miriam Yeung 楊千樺 or Faye Wong 王菲 . I love their songs because I grew up listening to them. Now I feel that it is not really important who I am writing for. I find the fun and joy of writing in every song. The other thing I really like about lyric writing is that it is an interactive process. I don’t like working on my own. When I am assigned a song, I see it as a frame, and I create within that frame. To use a simple metaphor, and many other tricks, lyric writing is like playing different ballgames at different times. If the frame is more like a badminton court, then I will play badminton with you. If the frame is more like a squash court, then I will play squash. It is that simple. I have a semi-finished product for me to complete, and I enjoy that interaction.

Did you learn Chinese from listening to Cantopop?

I am sure I did because you have deeper and stronger feelings about words from listening to songs. You can also learn some vocabulary. However, in Cantonese songs, there are many limitations on rhyming, so the sentence structures are sometime compromised. To maintain the rhythm, it may be necessary to sacrifice the fluidity or create a new sentence form. Every lyricist has different ways of dealing with this. Some prioritize grammar and sentence structures, so the words may not fit the melody beautifully. I put more emphasis on the rhythm of the song, but it all depends on the song in the end. I can only say that there are a lot of irregularities in grammar in Cantopop, so it may not be the best way to learn Chinese. Yet it is still interesting and we have fun there!